ch3wbacca

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Awesome video! I just got some p2np and almost ready to go, I just need to get some sulfuric acid and some Hg. I am chatting to supplier about some Hg and I have a question for you guys , I can get mercury nitrate and chloride, which should i get ? The chloride is cheaper than the nitrate so i am assumming that would be better but Itll last a lifetime so i really dont mind investing in something better ($45 for chloride and $70 for nitrate).
Also , pure sulfuric acid is not available to public where I am , i think I can get 60% cleaning stuff do you think i could boil/distill this upto a good percentage or should I try harder to buy the 95% stuff?
Also, I have a 5000ml and 2000ml flat bottom conical flask, how much is the max i could run ?
also could i use a glass demijohn (21L or 11.5L) and a ice bath and do 100g runs safely? or would this be hard to work with/not able to handle the exothermic reaction?
Thanks for your time, Happy New Year!
thatfella
Adding metallic mercury to some 50% nitric acid and not inhaling the fumes, then using this to amalgamate Al in water or alcohol.
Works always, relieable and fast.
If this is now the (I) or (II) nitrate I confess I never spent a thought on.

But all mercury salts work, solubility is secondary. Mercury alone is not really the hit, but some nitric acid or some HCl and a pinch of nitrate help it to get on the way.

The amalgamation is cake from the mercury side of the fence, the problems blamed on the mercury are IMHO virtually always to blame on the aluminium in special the stupid foil which still is believed to be suitable.
Get some good 99,9% Al granules and amalgamation will be the least of your troubles, the whole reaction will then be troublefree most probably.
 

Montecristo

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Adding metallic mercury to some 50% nitric acid and not inhaling the fumes, then using this to amalgamate Al in water or alcohol.
Works always, relieable and fast.
If this is now the (I) or (II) nitrate I confess I never spent a thought on.

But all mercury salts work, solubility is secondary. Mercury alone is not really the hit, but some nitric acid or some HCl and a pinch of nitrate help it to get on the way.

The amalgamation is cake from the mercury side of the fence, the problems blamed on the mercury are IMHO virtually always to blame on the aluminium in special the stupid foil which still is believed to be suitable.
Get some good 99,9% Al granules and amalgamation will be the least of your troubles, the whole reaction will then be troublefree most probably.
ch3wbaccaAwesome thank you.
I got some Mercury Nitrate on the way but if that fails i will get some thermometers!
I have some Al granules for my pyrotechnics but it is pretty much a powder, would I be better off buying some with a coarser grain? if so, what size would you recommend?
Thanks! I'm really excited to give this a go!
 

Montecristo

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What is preventing from having a mercury contamination in the end product?
Are there any less poisonous substitutes for the mercury nitrate?

EDIT: found a procedure that proposes nickel chloride for the amalgam
laymanThoroughly rinsing the Al multiple times.
Mercury content vs final product used probably wouldn't be enough to poison you either , especially if you do rinse the majority off. Its probably most dangerous dealing with it during the reaction rather than the final product.
But ask an experienced member and they could probably spell it out for you, I am also a layman :)
 

Gérard Gibert

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Thoroughly rinsing the Al multiple times.
Mercury content vs final product used probably wouldn't be enough to poison you either , especially if you do rinse the majority off. Its probably most dangerous dealing with it during the reaction rather than the final product.
But ask an experienced member and they could probably spell it out for you, I am also a layman :)
MontecristoA few times it doesn't. But if you live with it regularly within, say, reasonable limits and not every day, it can be quite toxic in the long run. I think that due to its relatively simpler synthesizing process, most of the amphetamine sulfates on the market are made with this synthesis. I think a similar proportion comes out the other way around, if we look at how many people don't give a shit about how much mercury remains in the finished product, among those who make it and then scatter it on the street.
I hope that the principles formulated by BB will be examples to be followed in the future, for the next generations. It will be a silly word for this, but I think the best thing would be if BB was able to create a "fashion" defining a new era, out of the pursuit of quality. It is almost impossible to influence the attitude of those people who see it more simply and/or because they are profit-oriented at any cost... or the other extreme, whose own limitations hinder their development. Except that they will be forced to follow the trends and thus the needs of the changing market.
But back to mercury, I fear it too. It's true, I have a frightening example that happened to a family member in the past.
Mercury is a heavy metal, in most cases it is not even excreted from the body, thanks to the half-life of 20+ years, as is typical for heavy metals. The net is full of methods for detoxification, I even found a detailed description of it here on the forum, but it is a lot of work. If it accumulates in us, it can cause serious problems. We know that it enters our bodies on a daily basis, just like lead and everything else. But it's one thing that you get it indirectly, and it's another thing that you do it as a cure, which could otherwise be avoided.
I'm not a chemical engineer, I just guess that the mercury present during the reaction mostly remains in the slag formed by the separated layers. And the purpose of repeated washing can be, among other things, to maximize the removal of mercury contamination. But I guess there is no guarantee that it will disappear completely.
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to lecture you. I meant only those forum members who are curious about the topic. In this way, they can create an image of this based on several points of view.😊✌️
 
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Awesome thank you.
I got some Mercury Nitrate on the way but if that fails i will get some thermometers!
I have some Al granules for my pyrotechnics but it is pretty much a powder, would I be better off buying some with a coarser grain? if so, what size would you recommend?
Thanks! I'm really excited to give this a go!
thatfellaIn my experience, aluminum foil is the best form of aluminum for amalgam. The main condition is that it does not contain any foreign components, only 99.9% Al. Powder and granules of aluminum are also suitable, but they are recommended to be taken in larger quantities for the reaction and the yield will not be as good as when using foil.
 

ifreezeu

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In the video synthesis of amphetamine, reagents are used:
10 g 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene;
100 ml isopropyl alcohol;
50 ml glacial acetic acid;
50 g sodium hydroxide;
12 g aluminium (in the form of sliced household foil);
0.1g mercury nitrate;
2 ml sulphuric acid;
50 ml acetone.

Description of amphetamine synthesis video.
Before the start of the synthesis, the laboratory assistant prepared a solution of 10 g of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene in 100 ml of isopropyl alcohol and 50 ml of acetic acid. Also, for the aluminium amalgam, 12 g of household aluminium foil was prepared, which was cut into small pieces with a paper shredder. It can be cut with scissors or torn by hand.

0:04-0:40 - Preparation of an aqueous solution of alkali. In this video, it was made in advance so that the solution cools down by the time the main reaction mixture alkalizes. Alkalinization proceeds with the release of heat, and if a fresh hot alkali solution is used, then the exothermic will be more pronounced and forced cooling of the reaction mass will be required.

0:46-2:36 - Amalgam of mercury nitrate. Amalgamated aluminium will reduce 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene to amphetamine. During the amalgamation reaction: little gas evolves, a grey precipitate is formed. It is important not to miss the moment when the aluminium is ready: this can be determined by the formation of a grey precipitate and by the increased gas evolution; this happens in 10-15 minutes after the load.
The water is drained without removing the gauze, the amalgamated aluminium is washed with two portions of cold water. It is worth paying attention to the release of gas bubbles: it is noticed that with the "correct" amalgam, these bubbles are small, and the colour of the liquid is darker; if the bubbles are large and the colour is light, and the reaction looks violent, the amalgam is bad. This is almost certainly due to a lack of mercury salt. Please note that mercury salts are poisonous.

2:37-4:28 - The most important part of the process is the reduction of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene on aluminium amalgam. The reaction is exothermic, proceeds with abundant heat release. During the process, it is necessary to carefully monitor the temperature, in case of excessive overheating, to cool in an ice bath, it is allowed to add cold water to the flask. There are cases when the reaction does not start, in which case it is necessary to warm the reaction mass thoroughly, and with a properly prepared amalgam, the reaction begins. The reaction proceeds with the release of the smell of a boiling alcohol and acetic acid mixture. To capture vapours, a spherical irrigation condenser is used, the efficiency of which can be increased by connecting running cold water to it or simply pouring cold water into.

5:04 - You can rinse the flask with a little alcohol and rinse the unreacted aluminium with it to collect residues and increase the yield.

5:13 - There should be little unreacted aluminium left. By the residues, you can determine the amount of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene reacted.

5:16-6:13 - Alkalinization. The reaction proceeds with the release of heat. The remains of unreacted aluminium will additionally enter into reaction with alkali and heat the mixture, as well as create by-products.
In the process of allowing the mixture to rest after alkalinization, separation into visible layers occurs within 30 minutes. The pH of the top layer should be 11-12.

6:18-7:23 - Decantation: collect the top layer containing amphetamine base in alcohol. It can be dried a little with anhydrous magnesium sulfate, and the slag can be additionally extracted with a non-polar solvent (ether, benzene, toluene), the solvent is then evaporated.

7:24-8:50 - Preparing a solution of sulphuric acid in acetone. It is made softer acidification of the product to be smoother. If concentrated sulphuric acid is used, there may be local over-acidification of the product.

8:51-10:53 - Product acidification - obtaining amphetamine sulfate. To the upper yellow layer collected at the previous stage, a prepared solution of sulphuric acid is added dropwise. Flakes of salt will form with each drop. This stage is very important, it is necessary to carefully monitor the pH, avoiding over-acidification. Acidification is continued until pH 5.5-6 (neutral). The over-acidified product will be pinkish in colour. In case of global over-acidification, the product will be lost.

10:55-11:38 - Filtration of amphetamine sulfate from solvents in a Buchner funnel under vacuum. At this stage, the product can be additionally rinsed with cold acetone by pouring it through the funnel with the substance.

11:41-12:28 Filtration using improvised means. Any thick fabric can be used as a filter.
The resulting product is dried in a warm dry place for several hours to remove residual solvents. It is recommended to store it in a vacuum package.

The yield is 60-70%.
HIGGS BOSSON
Hi

First of all thanks :) And some questions below.

1. Acids concentration question ?
  • 50 ml of acetic acid (concentration ?)
  • 2 ml sulphuric acid (concentration ?)
I will youtube how to make this as we cannot get hold of this where I am

2. isopropyl ?
Would "IPA Isopropanol Isopropyl Alcohol 99.9%" be fine ?

3. 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene ?
  1. Does the purity matter too much , do I have to recrystallise it few times. As I am getting it from someone probably.
  2. Can I add 50Grams of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene instead of 10Grams, would I have to adjust any amounts on the other chemicals/compounds shown in the experiment?
4. Anhydrous Acetone ?
I cannot get hold of Anhydrous Acetone as its name. Can I use this instead Acetone 100 ml 99.9% Pure ACS/Lab grade high Quality

Yields ?

How much amphetamines was produced after that experiment in grams please ?
(60-70%) of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene ?

Regards
 
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MadHatter

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Hi

First of all thanks :) And some questions below.

1. Acids concentration question ?
  • 50 ml of acetic acid (concentration ?)
  • 2 ml sulphuric acid (concentration ?)
I will youtube how to make this as we cannot get hold of this where I am

2. isopropyl ?
Would "IPA Isopropanol Isopropyl Alcohol 99.9%" be fine ?

3. 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene ?
  1. Does the purity matter too much , do I have to recrystallise it few times. As I am getting it from someone probably.
  2. Can I add 50Grams of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene instead of 10Grams, would I have to adjust any amounts on the other chemicals/compounds shown in the experiment?
4. Anhydrous Acetone ?
I cannot get hold of Anhydrous Acetone as its name. Can I use this instead Acetone 100 ml 99.9% Pure ACS/Lab grade high Quality

Yields ?

How much amphetamines was produced after that experiment in grams please ?
(60-70%) of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene ?

Regards
ifreezeuAcetic acid can usually be found in shops specializing in beekeeping, along with formic acid, usually even highly concentrated. They're used for fighting parasites in the colony.
However, if you need to order larger quantities, spend a few bucks on other equipment also not to raise suspicion.
 

HIGGS BOSSON

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Hi

First of all thanks :) And some questions below.

1. Acids concentration question ?
  • 50 ml of acetic acid (concentration ?)
  • 2 ml sulphuric acid (concentration ?)
I will youtube how to make this as we cannot get hold of this where I am

2. isopropyl ?
Would "IPA Isopropanol Isopropyl Alcohol 99.9%" be fine ?

3. 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene ?
  1. Does the purity matter too much , do I have to recrystallise it few times. As I am getting it from someone probably.
  2. Can I add 50Grams of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene instead of 10Grams, would I have to adjust any amounts on the other chemicals/compounds shown in the experiment?
4. Anhydrous Acetone ?
I cannot get hold of Anhydrous Acetone as its name. Can I use this instead Acetone 100 ml 99.9% Pure ACS/Lab grade high Quality

Yields ?

How much amphetamines was produced after that experiment in grams please ?
(60-70%) of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene ?

Regards
ifreezeu
  • 50 ml of acetic acid (concentration ?) 95-98%
  • 2 ml sulphuric acid (concentration ?) 95-99%
  • Would "IPA Isopropanol Isopropyl Alcohol 99.9%" be fine? Yes
  • Purity is essential, as is the freshness of the precursor. Ideally, there should be light yellow crystals. If you have brown, darkened crystals of phenylnitropropene, then it is enough to recrystallize them once from isopropyl alcohol.
  • If you want to increase the load by 5 times, then you need to recalculate all other reagents proportionally. But I recommend the first syntheses to put on small amounts, such as 10 g
  • Yes, it will be anhydrous, you have a high quality of acetone.
  • If we consider the yield in grams, then when loading 10 g of phenylnitropropene, you can get 6-7 g of amphetamine sulfate.
 
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ifreezeu

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  • 50 ml of acetic acid (concentration ?) 95-98%
  • 2 ml sulphuric acid (concentration ?) 95-99%
  • Would "IPA Isopropanol Isopropyl Alcohol 99.9%" be fine ? Yes
  • Purity is really important, as is the freshness of the precursor. Ideally, there should be light yellow crystals. If you have brown, darkened crystals of phenylnitropropene, then it is enough to recrystallize them once from isopropyl alcohol.
  • If you want to increase the load by 5 times, then you need to recalculate all other reagents proportionally. But I recommend the first syntheses to put on small amounts, such as 10g
  • Yes, it will be anhydrous, you have a high quality of acetone.
  • If we consider the yield in grams, then when loading 10 g of phenylnitropropene, you can get 6-7 g of amphetamine sulfate.
HIGGS BOSSON
Thank you so much.
 

Montecristo

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  • 50 ml of acetic acid (concentration ?) 95-98%
  • 2 ml sulphuric acid (concentration ?) 95-99%
  • Would "IPA Isopropanol Isopropyl Alcohol 99.9%" be fine ? Yes
  • Purity is really important, as is the freshness of the precursor. Ideally, there should be light yellow crystals. If you have brown, darkened crystals of phenylnitropropene, then it is enough to recrystallize them once from isopropyl alcohol.
  • If you want to increase the load by 5 times, then you need to recalculate all other reagents proportionally. But I recommend the first syntheses to put on small amounts, such as 10g
  • Yes, it will be anhydrous, you have a high quality of acetone.
  • If we consider the yield in grams, then when loading 10 g of phenylnitropropene, you can get 6-7 g of amphetamine sulfate.
HIGGS BOSSONIn terms of precursor purity, would I mix with iso filtering out impurities and then evap? or freeze precipitate?
or is this just washed with iso? My p2np is pretty brown.
 

HIGGS BOSSON

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In terms of precursor purity, would I mix with iso filtering out impurities and then evap? or freeze precipitate?
or is this just washed with iso? My p2np is pretty brown.
thatfellaIf your p2np is brown, then it should be dissolved in hot IPA alcohol, and then cooled in the freezer until the crystals fall out. They will need to be collected on the filter, and the dirty solution of alcohol will be thrown out.
 

Honolulu98

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  • 50 ml de ácido acético ( concentración? ) 95-98%
  • 2 ml de ácido sulfúrico ( concentración? ) 95-99%
  • ¿Estaría bien "IPA Isopropanol Isopropyl Alcohol 99.9%"? sí
  • La pureza es esencial, al igual que la frescura del precursor. Idealmente, debería haber cristales de color amarillo claro. Si tiene cristales marrones oscurecidos de fenilnitropropeno, entonces es suficiente recristalizarlos una vez en alcohol isopropílico.
  • Si desea aumentar la carga 5 veces, debe volver a calcular todos los demás reactivos proporcionalmente. Pero recomiendo que las primeras síntesis se pongan en pequeñas cantidades, como 10 g
  • Sí, será anhidro, tienes acetona de alta calidad.
  • Si consideramos el rendimiento en gramos, al cargar 10 g de fenilnitropropeno, puede obtener 6-7 g de sulfato de anfetamina.
HIGGS BOSSONWhat would be the best way to obtain high purity sulfuric acid? in my country the sale of acid greater than 14.5% is restricted
 

MadHatter

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Actually, that way is not very good for obtaining high PURITY sulphuric acid. It can produce somewhat concentrated sulphuric acid, but the impurities will be just as concentrated.

If you want to produce concentrated sulphuric acid of high purity, you need to distill it. There are hundreds of instruction videos on youtube on how to do this. Its not very easy though, and requires a glassware distillation apparatus made from good borosilicate glassware since the distillation is done at temperatures above 300 C.

But if all you want is to make amphetamine sulphate from freebase, you don't really need high purity and that method should do fine.
 

ifreezeu

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What would be the best way to obtain high purity sulfuric acid? in my country the sale of acid greater than 14.5% is restricted
Honolulu98
I will have to use this one day as well ;)

 

ifreezeu

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In the video synthesis of amphetamine, reagents are used:
10 g 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene;
100 ml isopropyl alcohol;
50 ml glacial acetic acid;
50 g sodium hydroxide;
12 g aluminium (in the form of sliced household foil);
0.1g mercury nitrate;
2 ml sulphuric acid;
50 ml acetone.

Description of amphetamine synthesis video.
Before the start of the synthesis, the laboratory assistant prepared a solution of 10 g of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene in 100 ml of isopropyl alcohol and 50 ml of acetic acid. Also, for the aluminium amalgam, 12 g of household aluminium foil was prepared, which was cut into small pieces with a paper shredder. It can be cut with scissors or torn by hand.

0:04-0:40 - Preparation of an aqueous solution of alkali. In this video, it was made in advance so that the solution cools down by the time the main reaction mixture alkalizes. Alkalinization proceeds with the release of heat, and if a fresh hot alkali solution is used, then the exothermic will be more pronounced and forced cooling of the reaction mass will be required.

0:46-2:36 - Amalgam of mercury nitrate. Amalgamated aluminium will reduce 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene to amphetamine. During the amalgamation reaction: little gas evolves, a grey precipitate is formed. It is important not to miss the moment when the aluminium is ready: this can be determined by the formation of a grey precipitate and by the increased gas evolution; this happens in 10-15 minutes after the load.
The water is drained without removing the gauze, the amalgamated aluminium is washed with two portions of cold water. It is worth paying attention to the release of gas bubbles: it is noticed that with the "correct" amalgam, these bubbles are small, and the colour of the liquid is darker; if the bubbles are large and the colour is light, and the reaction looks violent, the amalgam is bad. This is almost certainly due to a lack of mercury salt. Please note that mercury salts are poisonous.

2:37-4:28 - The most important part of the process is the reduction of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene on aluminium amalgam. The reaction is exothermic, proceeds with abundant heat release. During the process, it is necessary to carefully monitor the temperature, in case of excessive overheating, to cool in an ice bath, it is allowed to add cold water to the flask. There are cases when the reaction does not start, in which case it is necessary to warm the reaction mass thoroughly, and with a properly prepared amalgam, the reaction begins. The reaction proceeds with the release of the smell of a boiling alcohol and acetic acid mixture. To capture vapours, a spherical irrigation condenser is used, the efficiency of which can be increased by connecting running cold water to it or simply pouring cold water into.

5:04 - You can rinse the flask with a little alcohol and rinse the unreacted aluminium with it to collect residues and increase the yield.

5:13 - There should be little unreacted aluminium left. By the residues, you can determine the amount of 1-phenyl-2-nitropropene reacted.

5:16-6:13 - Alkalinization. The reaction proceeds with the release of heat. The remains of unreacted aluminium will additionally enter into reaction with alkali and heat the mixture, as well as create by-products.
In the process of allowing the mixture to rest after alkalinization, separation into visible layers occurs within 30 minutes. The pH of the top layer should be 11-12.

6:18-7:23 - Decantation: collect the top layer containing amphetamine base in alcohol. It can be dried a little with anhydrous magnesium sulfate, and the slag can be additionally extracted with a non-polar solvent (ether, benzene, toluene), the solvent is then evaporated.

7:24-8:50 - Preparing a solution of sulphuric acid in acetone. It is made softer acidification of the product to be smoother. If concentrated sulphuric acid is used, there may be local over-acidification of the product.

8:51-10:53 - Product acidification - obtaining amphetamine sulfate. To the upper yellow layer collected at the previous stage, a prepared solution of sulphuric acid is added dropwise. Flakes of salt will form with each drop. This stage is very important, it is necessary to carefully monitor the pH, avoiding over-acidification. Acidification is continued until pH 5.5-6 (neutral). The over-acidified product will be pinkish in colour. In case of global over-acidification, the product will be lost.

10:55-11:38 - Filtration of amphetamine sulfate from solvents in a Buchner funnel under vacuum. At this stage, the product can be additionally rinsed with cold acetone by pouring it through the funnel with the substance.

11:41-12:28 Filtration using improvised means. Any thick fabric can be used as a filter.
The resulting product is dried in a warm dry place for several hours to remove residual solvents. It is recommended to store it in a vacuum package.

The yield is 60-70%.
HIGGS BOSSON
You lovely chaps :)

How could this process or video be modified to work with L-PAC instead of P2NP ? That will be super cool/wicked/proper & bang on to the cause.





P2NP1-Phenyl-2-nitropropene
Phenyl-2-nitropropene
C9 H9 N O2
L-PACPhenylacetylcarbinol
1-hydroxy-1-phenyl-propan-2-one
C9 H10 O2
 

HIGGS BOSSON

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You lovely chaps :)

How could this process or video be modified to work with L-PAC instead of P2NP ? That will be super cool/wicked/proper & bang on to the cause.





P2NP1-Phenyl-2-nitropropene
Phenyl-2-nitropropene
C9 H9 N O2
L-PACPhenylacetylcarbinol
1-hydroxy-1-phenyl-propan-2-one
C9 H10 O2
ifreezeuI thought about using Phenylacetylcarbinol, but it turned out to be quite difficult to buy, the substance is not used in pharmaceuticals, and there is no one on the market in China and India. But even if you find it, you need to make ephederine from it, which can be restored to methamphetamine.
 

ifreezeu

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I thought about using Phenylacetylcarbinol, but it turned out to be quite difficult to buy, the substance is not used in pharmaceuticals, and there is no one on the market in China and India. But even if you find it, you need to make ephederine from it, which can be restored to methamphetamine.
HIGGS BOSSON
I was going to try to use this guide in the future to make it L-PAC ? https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=12453.0

I am totally novice to chemistry but I know I can put the pieces together, with your guys help :)

So hopefully L-PAC with the process above could be a great fun experiment :)
 

layman

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Can anyone enlighten me on what the GAA is responsible for?
 

layman

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Is there any specific reason to prefer isopropanol over ethanol?
 
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